Balance & Beyond Podcast

It's been a big year, on so many levels.

This is part 2 where Jo and Jaclyn continue to share their biggest lessons of 2023. Click here to listen to Part 1 

https://www.balanceinstitute.com/podcast/2023/29 

Ever thought about what prioritising your own needs might do for your personal growth? Prepare to unlock the secrets! This episode takes you on a journey deep into our major revelations from the year, shedding light on the profound power of intuition and the often-overlooked importance of recognising negative emotions. We delve into how community and self-kindness form the foundation of our personal evolution. Through our own lived experiences, we lay bare the essential truth - prioritising oneself is not just okay. It's an absolute necessity for collective benefit.

Have you ever felt chained to the outcomes in your life, struggling to find joy and fulfilment? Enter the transformative power of detachment and trust. This particular discussion uncovers how releasing control and separating our self-worth from outcomes paves the way for a life filled with success and satisfaction. We invite you to bask in the joy that is fun and play, and the peace of trusting in something larger than ourselves. This conversation promises to reveal the surprising rewards that come when we simply let go.

Finally, we explore the key lessons learned: daily joy, movement, the significance of community, intuition, detachment, and the benefits of taking breaks and living in the present. 

This wraps our first season of the Balance & Beyond Podcast. We’re so grateful for your time here with us, and ask that if you enjoy the podcast, you leave us a review. 

As we look at the future, we're excited about what's in store for the podcast. So, here's to growth, change, and an exciting future in 2024

Ever thought about what prioritising your own needs might do for your personal growth? Prepare to unlock the secrets! This episode takes you on a journey deep into our major revelations from the year, shedding light on the profound power of intuition and the often-overlooked importance of recognising negative emotions. We delve into how community and self-kindness form the foundation of our personal evolution. Through our own lived experiences, we lay bare the essential truth - prioritising oneself is not just okay. It's an absolute necessity for collective benefit.

Have you ever felt chained to the outcomes in your life, struggling to find joy and fulfilment? Enter the transformative power of detachment and trust. This particular discussion uncovers how releasing control and separating our self-worth from outcomes paves the way for a life filled with success and satisfaction. We invite you to bask in the joy that is fun and play, and the peace of trusting in something larger than ourselves. This conversation promises to reveal the surprising rewards that come when we simply let go.

Finally, we explore the key lessons learned: daily joy, movement, the significance of community, intuition, detachment, and the benefits of taking breaks and living in the present. 

This wraps our first season of the Balance & Beyond Podcast. We’re so grateful for your time here with us, and ask that if you enjoy the podcast, you leave us a review. 

As we look at the future, we're excited about what's in store for the podcast. So, here's to growth, change, and an exciting future in 2024!

Ever thought about what prioritising your own needs might do for your personal growth? Prepare to unlock the secrets! This episode takes you on a journey deep into our major revelations from the year, shedding light on the profound power of intuition and the often-overlooked importance of recognising negative emotions. We delve into how community and self-kindness form the foundation of our personal evolution. Through our own lived experiences, we lay bare the essential truth - prioritising oneself is not just okay. It's an absolute necessity for collective benefit.

Have you ever felt chained to the outcomes in your life, struggling to find joy and fulfilment? Enter the transformative power of detachment and trust. This particular discussion uncovers how releasing control and separating our self-worth from outcomes paves the way for a life filled with success and satisfaction. We invite you to bask in the joy that is fun and play, and the peace of trusting in something larger than ourselves. This conversation promises to reveal the surprising rewards that come when we simply let go.

Finally, we explore the key lessons learned: daily joy, movement, the significance of community, intuition, detachment, and the benefits of taking breaks and living in the present. 

This wraps our first season of the Balance & Beyond Podcast. We’re so grateful for your time here with us, and ask that if you enjoy the podcast, you leave us a review. 

As we look at the future, we're excited about what's in store for the podcast. So, here's to growth, change, and an exciting future in 2024!

Episode Transcript

INTRO: Welcome to Balance and Beyond, the podcast for ambitious women who refuse to accept burnout as the price of success. Here, we’re committed to empowering you with the tools and strategies you need to achieve true balance, where your career, relationships and health all thrive, and where you have the power to define success on your own terms. I honour the space you’ve created for yourself today, so take a breath, and let's dive right in…

Jo (Host)

Welcome back to today's episode, part two of the biggest learnings that Jaclyn and I have had for the year. So, if you haven't listened to part one, go back and find that. I will give you a brief recap, but we're going to continue this conversation. Welcome, Jaclyn. Nice to have you back. 

Jaclyn (Guest)

Happy to be back. I love this conversation we're having!

Jo (Host)

Well, a quick recap of last time, so that you can pick up where we left off. Last time, I shared that two of my biggest learnings from the last 12 months have really been learning to trust my intuition, to access that deep inner wisdom that tells me what is the right decision to be making. And it's opened up all kinds of goodness, in terms of speed of decision making. Really backing myself and following the breadcrumbs that are being left for me, has been a game changer. 

The second piece I shared was around this term called “toxic positivity”, where we can put a positive spin and a rainbow on everything, but in reality, it actually denies us the ability to feel some emotions that are all part of the human experience and we don't let ourselves feel them, which, ironically, helps us be more negative, and not as positive as we would like. So these were my two and, Jaclyn, you want to share what was your one that you shared yesterday? A 30 second download. 

Jaclyn (Guest)

Sure. I shared the power of having community and solidarity on the journey of personal growth, because we can tend to feel like lone wolves out there and feel very alone and there's a momentum that's available and accountability that's available in community, but also the act of self kindness, of having support is one of the most radical parts of investing in community on this journey. 

Jo (Host)

Absolutely. And so, today, we're going to share three more, which have been three big game changes, I know, for both of us. So, we're going to be equal and fair. My girls will be very happy to know that I'm being fair and equal, I'll be sharing one, and Jaclyn's going to share her other two. So, to kick us off, Jaclyn, what has been one of the other learnings that you've had over the last 12 months? What have you learned? 

Jaclyn (Guest)

Yes. So one of the big learnings from this past year is that trusting that whatever is best for me, is ultimately best for all parties concerned. So that what's best for me, will also be best for my marriage, and for my husband, and for my baby, and for in the workplace. Like, tending to myself and what's true for me and what I need, ultimately creates a win-win for all. 

And I've seen, you know, for both myself and with the clients that we've been working with in the past year, that we can feel really confronted with that choice. Like, no, surely if I sacrifice, or if I compromise, or if I make life easier for them, even if that comes at my cost, then things will go better. So, surely, that must be the solution. But, in fact, it's the opposite. It's tending to yourself first. 

And I think we've all heard about putting our oxygen mask on first, but we almost make excuses. “Well, I don't need to put my oxygen mask on first.” “Here.” “I need to think about my family first, because they need me, right?” And so then there's this kind of martyrdom that occurs. And I'm not saying to neglect your family or what's needed, but to consider that pouring into yourself first ultimately helps you fulfil whatever it is that your family does need from you. So, in the end, you're still achieving the same aim. You’re showing up and being present and tending to your family, like you really desire to be, or work, or whatever the circumstance. But, it truly comes from tending to yourself first. 

So for me, what that looked like, you know, after having a baby, was giving myself permission once a week to have my own solo time, so whatever I needed. So, whether that was receiving a massage, whether that was going to the spa, or going to a yoga class. And I would just check in. “What is it that my body needed that day?” And giving myself permission to have, you know, at least three hours. 

Now, I have the luxury of having a beautiful nanny and babysitter system, and sometimes we have to get more creative, if we don't have that as accessible. But at any rate, I didn't feel guilty about leaving my baby at home, even when he was, you know, just a few weeks old. Or, however, you know, many months old, because I knew that I returned better. Like, I returned as the mother, with the nervous system that had more resources to support my baby, to support my marriage, to show up and be present for my work. 

Truly and I know that makes sense, probably when I speak that out loud, but it's so funny how we're the first thing to eliminate from the list of priorities and so I'm just, I'm sharing that now, to give you permission. And the permission slip is out there, if you're listening to yourself. Truly give yourself whatever that looks like for you. Whether it's once a week for three hours, or. whatever that true answer is for you. Find what you need to really re-source your nervous system, so you can show up as a woman. You want to be the wife, you want to be the professional, you want to be the mom. You want to be all those things.

Jo (Host)

Yeah, and Jaclyn, what is it, do you think this is? This can be societal and we don't necessarily want to open that can of worms, but why is it so hard for us to do that? Even, as you said, logically, we know that, but the plane even tells us! As you said, “Put your own oxygen mask on first.” And yet, it feels really, really hard to do. We worry about being selfish, or we worry about what others are going to think of us, or, “Oh my gosh, I'm a bad parent, if I actually want to leave my children!” What do you think is behind all of that?  

Jaclyn (Guest)

Yeah, well, the two main things, is we make meaning out of it, somehow, that it means that I'm a bad mom, or a bad wife, or a bad professional, or whatever it is. I'm failing at that by putting myself first, like, that is being selfish. Or, you know, that's the meaning we make out of that. 

And then, the other piece is that, sometimes, with these decisions, there is some disappointment that we need to contend with. Whether it's, you know, our daughter is disappointed that she doesn't get to spend time with us that evening, because we took time for ourselves, right? So then, we have to deal with our daughter's disappointment. Or maybe, you know, if you create this space for yourself at work, then knowing that you'll have to put in some extra time the following week, and you don't want to deal with that. It's like, something you don't want to deal with. 

Essentially, you don't want to deal with the fallout, the cost. But, in my experience, those kinds of things can always be met, when we're more resourceful. So, it just kind of goes back to that. At the end of the day, if we're going to show up to our life and be able to “respond” as opposed to “react”, then it's essential that we attend to ourselves. And we can trust that, even if there is a hiccup, or a little fallout, or a little disappointment that's uncomfortable for us to sit with, that ultimately, it will be a win-win for your work, for your kids, for your spouse. 

Jo (Host)

I trust that. And that's the key, isn't it, yeah? To do that without feeling guilty, because we hear all the time that people say, “Well, I'll take time for myself.” But I feel so guilty about taking that time, that it's almost not worth it. Or, I lie on the massage table. and think about all the million and one things I should be doing with that time instead. 

Jaclyn (Guest)

And so we go around and around in circles, right? Which then, you know, goes on to the whole point of there maybe should be more delegating happening. And like, if taking three hours a week created that much of a ruckus in your life, then there's something I’m missing. There must be. And I know that might be easier for me to say, with some of the advantages I might have. You know, with having a nanny accessible. 

And not everybody has those solutions. But I really believe that there's creative ways to get our needs met, even if it is three hours a week. There's delegating to be done. There's relaxing around our standards for how well things are executed. Once we delegate them, being more scrupulous about leaking our time, which is everything we teach in our course, right?

Jo (Host)

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And this is what we love, right? This is all about you taking on you. So, a beautiful example of what happens when we put ourselves first. It's not selfish. And, as you said, you've continued to see this, I think. Even for yourself and everybody we work with, because we are very much in the trenches of our work. You know, we do this work, not from a textbook, or not from theory, but you and I have very much lived this, which is what makes what we do so real. 

Jaclyn (Guest)

Absolutely. And the last thing I'll say, which I think can be interesting for people to hear, is to consider that what you think might be selfish. I like to flip it, and offer that not putting yourself first so that you can be resourced to show up to life the way you want, could, in fact, actually be the more selfish thing. If you want to use that term, use it, because everyone deserves you to show up as your full best self. Who is resourced? So, to me, you could consider that more selfish, to not prioritize yourself. And then you're showing up under-resourced. So, I just wanted to throw that one out there for whoever that might land for.

Jo (Host)

Let me think … Would I rather have a mother that is calm and controlled? Or grumpy and resentful? Hmm, which one actually makes a better parent, during that moment? Some food for thought, right? Which, I guess, is a nice segue into my last learning. It can be very easy for us, as high achievers, and people who like to get a lot of stuff done, to hold on really tightly to what we want, and try to control it. 

A term I like to use is “white-knuckling.” It's like, “Well, it has to look this way, and the only way it's ever gonna happen, is if I do it myself.” Something, I think, that is really imprinted in us as little girls was, “Well, if you want something done, do it yourself.” And “If no one's gonna give it to you on a silver platter, well, get out there and work your butt off.” And you grit, and you push, and you grind, and you're gonna make it happen at any cost. 

But I have learned, particularly over the last year, and this is a lesson that we've passed on to many of our clients. Results that have absolutely blown my mind as to what's possible, is when we actually start trusting ourselves. And this is where it ties back to my first point, around trusting my intuition. When we can learn to detach and hold on with less grip and have faith and trust that, whatever outcome I want, is going to happen. 

And ironically, when we stop making that thing mean something about us, everything shifts. Things start happening a lot faster, they start happening with a lot greater ease. I'm not suggesting things can be easy, but they come with ease, it means that there's less gripping, there's less pushing, there's less grinding. And because of that, there's less burnout. And so, understanding that, you know, sometimes we can very easily attach to, “Well, I have to get this role.” Or “I have to have this title.” Or “I have to have this car.” Or “My kitchen bench has to look this way.” 

When we're attached, what that means, is we make it mean something about us, if it doesn't happen. So, if I send out a note with typos in it, well, that means that I don't know what I'm talking about. And then I might get fired, and then I might lose my job, and then I can't pay my mortgage, and then my family's gonna be on the street, and so all of that holding on tight. We then feel the need to control that email, and become a perfectionist, because we're worried about what might happen. 

Whereas, when we have this ultimate faith that, “No matter what, I'm gonna be okay.” “If I send an email with a typo, that doesn't mean anything about me.” I'm detached from the outcome. I'm letting go of how something has to happen. That has just bought so much magic and miracles into my, and everybody's, life. It's not something that's that easy to do. Is it, Jaclyn? There's a lot of misconceptions around this term. 

Jaclyn (Guest)

Hmm, yeah. I mean, we're so invested, I think. For women who are so ambitious, they are really good at knowing what they want, and making it happen. So, it can feel confronting to try a different tack, of relaxing a bit. Because thus far, a lot of the success generated in the life of an ambitious woman, is from pushing. So, there's this unknown factor. “What would life be like, if I wasn't pushing?” Well, I would still be able to succeed, because that's all I have known. So, there's a bit of jumping into the unknown. 

So, ultimately, it’s trust in life, I think. That’s what this really comes down to. You know, people have different ways of saying that. Trusting the universe, trusting God, trusting life, whatever that is for you. But, something you could say, something bigger than you. Because if you only rely on yourself to get what you want in life, that's an incredible burden, and lots of pressure that we put on ourselves. 

And then, that's where that inner critic comes from, because it's nothing less than the best in success is acceptable. So, yeah, I think, learning how to trust in something bigger, trusting life, if you like that word, that things are coming, that things are happening for you and, yeah, that you don't have to push so hard. It might be a fun experiment, at the very least. 

Jo (Host)

But it can be a tricky one, as you said. Because everything we've ever gotten is as a result of controlling things, making it happen, pushing, and this was one thing that has been one of my struggles. And I've had to let go. “Well, I want this goal.” “I want this business objective.” And “I want it to happen by this time.” And here are my four milestones, and here's the project plan. 

And that's a lot of how we've been taught in business, and in the professional world. That's how you make a project happen. You don't just stick it out there and go, “I'd like to implement a new software program, and let's wish it to happen.” We're not suggesting that you do that. But, I'm more saying if you can make that happen, that doesn't mean anything about you. And if you can't make it happen, it doesn't mean anything about you. 

And when we can detach our self-worth from that thing, then we don't need to hold on so tight. And then we allow new, you can call it magic and miracles, or you allow new ways, or new opportunities. A new person might enter your world. They go, “Oh, I met this person at a conference, and they suggested this thing, and because I'm not so attached to having to be done at this time with this objective, all these other possibilities can arise.” And we strangle any other avenue that might actually be faster, and might actually be better. 

And certainly, when it comes to our personal relationships, when it comes to the things that we want in our life, in terms of abundance or material possessions, this for me has been a real game changer. It’s just not holding on so tight, because white knuckling was my way. Like, I was a really good white-knuckler. But, it's another way of living, and it's so much more fun. Isn’t it, Jaclyn? When we can start opening up to new nudges.

Jaclyn (Guest)

I mean, I've loved seeing, you know, on the outside, your journey with the business. With the Balance Institute. And seeing that the more fun, the more ease you’re having in life. You know, the time we spent on our retreat, which was a really delightful and decadent time, of immersing in the sights and beautiful scenery, the beautiful food, and wonderful connection, and intimacy with other women, all this beautiful work. 

It's like this play, and this ease, brought so much abundance for your company. But that's not the first example of that happening, right? Life loves to indulge us, if we allow ourselves to indulge ourselves, too. You know, it'll meet us in kind. But, if we're gripping and holding on tight, there's no room for life to come in and surprise you, and delight you. 

Jo (Host)

Yeah, which, as you said, I think comes down to that trust. Because, if I know my old view, “Well, I've got to control the controllables!” Because otherwise, I'm going to be knocked off course. But not everything that comes is here to knock you off course. And I can look back and see that there were things that I missed. There were actual breadcrumbs to say, “Go this way, go this way, go this way!” It's like, “No, it has to happen this way!” 

And I guess one other last example I'll share is and, you know, this can start to sound like it's moving into the realm of manifestation, but we won't go there today. But if you want to think of this, as this is actually one of the strategies that makes manifestation more and more readily available to you, was when I sold my house. I didn't have anywhere to go. I didn't have another house that I bought, and I wasn't attached to what that would look like. 

I didn't know where it was going to come from. I didn't know how it was going to come. But what I was attached to was how I was going to feel when I walked into my house and I wanted a brand new house and I thought the only way I was ever going to get that was to build it myself. But I went, “Well, you know what?” “I'm open to magic and miracles.” “Who knows what could happen?”

And, as it so happens, a couple of weeks after I made that declaration that what I want is a beautiful entrance way, with a nice tall ceiling. I want a beautiful outdoor area and a nice big kitchen where I can have lots of people over, and for me, light is really important. I want lots of light, I want lots of windows, I love beautiful LED lights under my bathroom vanity. So, I was holding on to those things, but not holding on to how it had to happen, and what package it had to be delivered in. And in the end, I ended up buying a house that was almost built. 

So, somebody has built it for me. And my old rules were that I would never be able to find anything that met all my needs, because I'm quite picky when it comes to taste and tiles and styles. And turns out this builder gave me everything I wanted, and things that I didn't even know I wanted. So I detached myself from “how” I would get that thing. And if I was only consumed with, “The only way for me to get a new house is to build it myself”, then I would have missed this beautiful opportunity that allowed me to step into so much expansion. And I have a giant door, and I have LED lights under my vanity, and beautiful lights that go up the stairs. 

So, I got everything I wanted. It came in a package that I did not expect. And I believe that only happened when I detached from “how” I thought it would come to me. So, that has been one of my huge, huge lessons. And, as always, because we go first, it's something that we've spent several months rolling out into our client community, and seeing beautiful things happen with them as well, giving them a lot more strategies and tools around, “How do you actually detach?” Because it's a very simple concept, but very difficult to implement in reality. So, speaking of detachment, Jaclyn, why don't you share your third lesson and our last one for the year? 

Jaclyn (Guest)

Yep. So the last learning is about the birthright that we all have as human beings to experience delight or pleasure as part of our everyday, as part of our lifestyle, as a part of our kind of baseline. And that pleasure, or that delight, isn't something we need to earn. It's our birthright and you need to include your body in that process. We have a tendency to get stuck in our heads a lot throughout our day, which is normal. We need our beautiful cognitive function for so many of our life's activities. But, we need to include our body on this ride. 

So, open the body to the five senses. To the pleasure that's available in any moment. You could call these like micro doses or drops of delight or pleasure help to recalibrate the nervous system. So you can hear, my theme is about allowing ourselves to be resourced right, to meet our life and show up in our life the way we really want to. But, I really challenge the idea that so many people think they have to earn their way to feeling good, or earn their way to happiness, or earn their way to to give themselves a break, to then relax. 

But, I challenge that and say, “Where can we find the micro moments of relaxation?” “Of softening the body?” “Of feeling contentment?” Whether it's in a sip of coffee, or looking out the window and taking in the beauty, or feeling the sun on your face, there's so many moments that this is available in, through our five senses. And it's free. So, yeah, I think that's quite a big game changer.

Jo (Host)

What do you think, Jaclyn, is the reason we shut off these senses? I know you mentioned we live in our heads, but what's the barrier to actually accessing those things? 

Jaclyn (Guest)

Well, I think sometimes we think we don't have the time for it. We're too busy trying to get things done. But again, kind of similar to the last note, the busier you are, the more you actually need to drop in and connect to yourself and your delight. Because when you're connected, and your nervous system is resourced, you're so much more efficient. So, that's where the irony is. It's like you actually accomplish the aim you want more, by pausing. 

But it feels counterintuitive at the time because we're like, “No, surely I have to push through and work harder, and I have to work faster, and I have to be better.” “And I have all this pressure, and it's exhausting.” It makes your whole body tight and it makes you feel pressured. It makes you feel like you're never doing enough, fast enough. I've heard it said, and I love this expression, “Slow down to speed up.” That's what I'm advocating for. It's like that pause, and collapsing of our time, then allows us to then slingshot forward. 

Jo (Host)

Hmm. So the key is getting out of our heads and stop listening to that voice that says, “I'm too busy to smell my coffee.” “I've just gotta scull it, because I've got to get back and write this email.” Or, “I've got to go back and do this thing.” And how have you seen this impact you, in terms of stopping for those moments of joy? And do you have a particular sense that is maybe your favourite go-to? 

Jaclyn (Guest)

Well, for me, because I work from home, and I know a lot of our clients do as well, I know that I have to get out. So, for me, movement is a big, a big, what you could call, one of our senses. You know, feeling my body in space, feeling my heart rate elevating. But, not from stress, from exercise, from the right form, from feeling energised, essentially.

So, I want to get my blood pumping. I want to smell the fresh air. Well, as fresh as the air can get in LA, and I need to go look at the trees, and get my eyes off of a screen, where I realise how much tension collects in my jaw. Just from focusing, and thinking on our daily life. I'm focusing and thinking, and our jaws tend to clench a lot. 

And so just getting out and having something else to look at, allows the body to soften, and allows that energy to return, and then, the senses are more alive, right?  So, I can feel the breeze on my skin. I can feel the sun on my face. So, it's a very “alive” experience for me to get outdoors. So that's something I've really needed to make a non-negotiable part of my day. 

Jo (Host)

And it’s something, as you said, that so many people work from home, or in some hybrid capacity, it can be very easy to spend 9, 10, 11, 12 hours locked in one room in one position, with, you know, the odd essential bathroom break, when you realise that you're busting because you've been so disconnected from your body, and you are so immersed in the things that you have to do. 

Jaclyn (Guest)

It sounds like jail. I think even in prison, they get more breaks than that.

Jo (Host)

It does, it does! And we use phrases like, “Being chained to your desk.” So, you know, sometimes it's not that too far from the truth. So some very, very valuable lessons that we have both had, and it's been an absolute pleasure for us to be able to bring these lessons to our community, in a variety of ways, through the containers that they work with us. So I am very excited about what 2024 is going to bring. 

This is our last episode for the year and this podcast has blown away all my expectations. So, to everybody listening, thank you for spending your time with us. We honor what it takes to carve out this time out for you. For you to learn, for you to breathe. Maybe next time, you might take in a slightly deeper breath, and actually feel what that is like in your body. 

We will be back next year. We've got a lot of very, very big things planned. We've got some evolution of the business, we've got some scaling up, and I am very excited to be able to share in the weeks and months ahead, where we are going. But this year has been another very big year of growth and, as I like to do, I always like to keep growing. So buckle up, Jaclyn, it's gonna be a ride. 

Jaclyn (Guest)

And from what I know of the upcoming year and the evolution we will have, what is so cool, Jo, is that all six of these learnings are quite evident in the scaffolding of what we're building. We’re honouring the need for community, honouring our intuition, and how to listen to your intuition, and follow the breadcrumbs. 

So, yeah, all six of these pieces really show up in the plan for next year. And, because we make room for surprises and spontaneity to respond to those kinds of “in the moment”, “in real time”, adjustments that are required. 

Jo (Host)

Yeah, it's a different way to run a business, but I wouldn't have it any other way! So, all the best for the end of the year. Happy holidays, merry Christmas, whatever it is you celebrate, and we look forward to seeing you back here in 2024! Take care.

OUTRO: Thank you for joining us today on the Balance and Beyond Podcast. We're so glad you carved out this time for yourself. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend who might need to hear this today. And if you're feeling extra generous, leaving us a review on your podcast platform of choice would mean the world. If you’re keen to dive deeper into our world, visit us at www.balanceinstitute.com to discover more about the toolkit that has helped thousands of women avoid burnout and create a life of balance, and beyond. Thanks again for tuning in, and we'll see you next time on the Balance & Beyond Podcast.